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 Clark Discussion for Club Settings

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Stince
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Stince

Posts : 2279
Join date : 2012-03-21
Age : 45
Location : Windsor, Ontario

Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 27, 2014 1:44 am

This is suppose to be a discussion about adjusting the speed reduction on Clark's for club battles and I apologize for what it has turn in to.  Embarassed 

I would like to hear from other members what they think.  Should we or shouldn't adjust them to be -37.5% or -50% for half the hits like other systems?  

We should make this decision as club, but to that we need to hear form others.

I know having speeding tanks make it excitable to drive out the field, but the strategy of crippling tanks though the speed reduction is a tactic many have used at battledays.

Please voice your opinion! (I promise I won't attack you)

_____________________________________________
HL Panzer III   |   HL Tiger   |   HL Jagdpanther   |   HL Panther   |   Mato Sherman
Hooben Elefant   |   HL Pershing   |   HL Bergepanzer IV   |   Tamiya Leopard 1A   |   WSN T-34
HL "Golden" Pan-Tiger   |   M16 Halftrack   |   HL Panzer IV   |   Tamiya KV-1   |   Tamiya Tiger
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Airbrushler
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Airbrushler

Posts : 2377
Join date : 2012-04-27
Age : 55
Location : Windsor, ON

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 27, 2014 2:19 am

Well for me i haven't been to a battle in a long time i don't really have any systems ready or tanks to battle yet i know when i first started i had the DBU with the DBC and on the first shot it seem to go down to 50% ...lmao it wasn't fun having my tank slow down to a worms pace being chased by eagles (SLU's)...lmaobut later on i built my T-34 my favorite tank i put everything into it that i could i followed Fire Man Tims lead he and others helped me when i needed it i put HL metal Gear boxes that i got from Glen
i modified the T-34 to fit them in i got an SLU which was only possible with the help of Derek he got it for me and i paid him so much every paycheck  until it was paid i tried to make my tank better and more up to date to beable to compete with the other guys at their level i was now at a level playing field as the others.
i actually won one battle not bad for the amount of times i have been there i know i stayed in the battles longer also this made it more fun for me when i was the slowmo tank at the beginning it was only fun cause i liked being there with the other guys they were great to talk to and some were halarious with the joking around and teasing  but when i was on even playing field and won i felt even more involved and part of the club  i think being on a even playing field is a good thing or as close as possible cause you all know it feels good to win lets not go arguing over things lets try to make this fun for everyone i love the clark boards the sound is awesome i have to send the one i have to be fixed but i talk to Clark all the time so i know he is a Great Guy he'll fix mine and then when i do program it to match everyone elses i'll be there and besides i haven't seen some any of the guys tanks in person and that is what i like about going to i love the tanks

i'm also going to say sorry if i stepped on anyones feet  Curtis i was only upset because you never got back to me i'm sure you are busy most times but i was just hoping that if we did the Muster show this yaer that you would be a part of it and if you were going to then i could arrange how many tables we would need for the show in advance last year they were short  on tables and they wanted us to actually give up 2 of ours but we couldn't as Glen Ian and Derek would agree we had what like 4 to 5 tables i think that we had to use they were filled with our tanks,  anyways we are not here to argue and point fingers i would set up my tank to any setting you guys want me to when i get my tanks ready  so lets talk about how the set up should go, i'm in

_____________________________________________
Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Soviet10
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Glen B
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Glen B

Posts : 1794
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 67
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 28, 2014 7:45 am

Strato50 wrote:
but if you're a total pillbox in one hit, that's a bummer...

It is.

I have my Stug set up with a DBC and that's what it does, that is why it has not been out to meets for at least a year;  I am not keen on operating anything that performs like that.

I still run SLU's and have started to get into Clarks.  The SLU seemed to be OK from the hit response point of view.  I really don't know about my one operational Clark, I have only used it at one meet this month and it might slow down after hits, but it should be tested at the July meet.

I had planned to switch over gradually to Clarks.  I have set up the two I have now to use a Tamiya receiver, I have one that I planned to switch from one tank to another, depending which tank I was putting on the field at the time.  I did not do this for any 45 degree defense (which I don't know how to use at this point), I thought it would be good to have a receiver that was recognized at other clubs in case I plan to travel more when I retire.

All of my emitters are set at 10mm deep in their tubes and don't "spray", all my tanks run at scale speeds and my receivers are not obstructed in any way from any direction. 

There's not much else I can offer at this point since I am not an electronics guy.

I am OK with whatever you guys come up with as long as we don't have to run "one hit wonders" and people can still use their SLU's, Clarks, Tamiya's, etc.


Honestly, things seemed simpler a few years ago at the meets and the the complexity of trying to sort these various options out amidst the different opinions seems like many of the decisions we make at work on a daily basis, which I am trying to get away from in my hobbies.


Perhaps I am not dealing with this discussion well due to my knee problems, I am not used to being laid up and it is making me irritable. At 62 I have never had surgery or been in a hospital for more than a few hours, things like this have always been "other people's problems". 

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
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Freakydude
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Freakydude

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Location : Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 28, 2014 8:52 am

I set up a spreadsheet with different speeds and reduction ratios. Based on actual Tamiya speeds vs Clarks with 3 to 1 ratios gear ratios ( probably the most common gear motor set up ) the closest speed reduction across all speeds is 25%. I will post the data when I complete the review.
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Strato50
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Strato50

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Age : 34
Location : Hamilton, On

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 28, 2014 10:05 am

Glen in my opinion that is the most workable setup and is very flexible in terms of both ease of use and compatibility with other tanks on the field. The Tamiya sensor seems to be harder to find and somewhat expensive, not for very good reasons, but it is very reliable and excellent. I use one for my 6 combat Clark boards. 

Curtis, I'm keen to see what your numbers show and how it all works together, that's interesting!

_____________________________________________
Tiger I - Panzer III - Panzer IV - Chi Nu Kai -  Panther G
M4A3(76) Sherman -  T-34/85 -  M3 Grant
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Glen B
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Glen B

Posts : 1794
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Age : 67
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 28, 2014 12:01 pm

Strato50 wrote:
Glen in my opinion that is the most workable setup and is very flexible in terms of both ease of use and compatibility with other tanks on the field. 

That's good to know, that's what I was hoping when I went for that set up.


Strato50
Curtis, I'm keen to see what your numbers show and how it all works together, that's interesting!


Yes, that will be interesting.

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
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pzkpfw_steve
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pzkpfw_steve

Posts : 92
Join date : 2013-07-09
Location : Hamilton, On.

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Jun 30, 2014 11:36 pm

as long as someone will program our clark boards for us, I'm down for whatever.  I'm broke for the foreseeable future.

I am a bit concerned as my tank was having trouble moving at all at the last battle day.  reducing the speed with hits even further means i won't move after the first hit.

I'm also going to need help getting the gear off my old motors, as i don't have anything appropriate for doing so.

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My Tanks:   HL - Pershing, Pz III/IV

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Strato50
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Strato50

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 01, 2014 6:05 am

Yea Steve that's a huge pain... I wreck the original motors even when trying not to. I've just resorted to hack sawing the shafts off and punching the shafts out Sad

_____________________________________________
Tiger I - Panzer III - Panzer IV - Chi Nu Kai -  Panther G
M4A3(76) Sherman -  T-34/85 -  M3 Grant
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dgsselkirk
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dgsselkirk

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2013-02-12
Age : 59
Location : Kitchener ON

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 01, 2014 9:52 am

I will bring the gear puller I got with my walterson to next battle day. Real easy to get the gears off the shafts...

_____________________________________________
"There are things in Russia which are not as they seem..."
Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov

Too many tanks, not enough time....
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Airbrushler
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Airbrushler

Posts : 2377
Join date : 2012-04-27
Age : 55
Location : Windsor, ON

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 01, 2014 1:04 pm

those gear pullers are so easy i don't have one but i used one
you guys will kick yourselves in the butt at how easy that gear comes off...lol it will be your next investment

_____________________________________________
Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Soviet10
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MikeC
Lieutenant General
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Posts : 1978
Join date : 2013-08-25
Location : Toronto, Ontario

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 01, 2014 1:37 pm

Guys, just buy a set of Waterson gears and it comes with the pusher and the puller. The only way to get pinions out........
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doug818tiger
Sgt-Major
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Posts : 427
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Age : 41
Location : sherkston ontario (portcolborn)

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 01, 2014 3:37 pm

It don't matter to me I have yet to be to a club meet this year due to my new job hell I don't know if I'm going to even make one at all
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Strato50
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Strato50

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 04, 2014 4:31 am

Hey guys! I found the exact thread on RCU that goes over Clark damage settings, compatibility and all that, and also the turret rotation speed reduction settings!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-tanks-369/11503286-clark-tk22-tamiya-battle-unit.html

_____________________________________________
Tiger I - Panzer III - Panzer IV - Chi Nu Kai -  Panther G
M4A3(76) Sherman -  T-34/85 -  M3 Grant
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Freakydude
Sgt-Major
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Freakydude

Posts : 451
Join date : 2012-11-25
Location : Barrie

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Jul 06, 2014 12:22 am

Strato50 wrote:
Hey guys! I found the exact thread on RCU that goes over Clark damage settings, compatibility and all that, and also the turret rotation speed reduction settings!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-tanks-369/11503286-clark-tk22-tamiya-battle-unit.html
This discussion was about the TK20 in the early versions along with the turret reduction speed in a damaged state. Moot point now as this all changed with the intro of the TK22 and a multiple number of changes.
All the math I have done so far puts 25% as the default with 25% in a damaged state as the closest setting.
The numbers don't match across the line ( I have graphed them both in bar and line ) especially when you compare say a Tamiya Sherman to a Taigen Tiger BUT and this is the big one 
When the numbers are averaged over a range of speeds what one tank gives up on one end, it makes up for it on the other. If you set the Clark at 50%, 5 shots into the game Clark runs at 4 mph and Tamiya is at 7.5mph because of the speed advantage. The same scenario at 25% reduction on the Clark and you have the Clark at 6 mph, Tamiya at 7.5. Just a little closer.
The one thing though is if we change tanks we may get a different result as Tamiya has some faster tanks out there and there is no rhyme or reason why the change in speeds. I have reports of Shermans doing 25 foot runs at close to 40 mph in scale......
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BattleArmor
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BattleArmor

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Location : Grande Prairie Alberta

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 23, 2014 12:19 am

It has been awhile since I have dropped by here.

The issues you are having were always a concern of mine when you are dealing with a board that has so many options to program in.  It is important to have these discussions and get things worked out.  After the novelty of tank battling wears off then people start getting more concerned about how fair the battles are.

The old original DBC's were pillboxes after the first hit.   After trials at Danville the code was rewritten to better mimic Tamiya.  With 3:1 gears and stock motors a DBC3 is almost identical to a Tamiya.

RE IR receivers.  I gave up trying to mimic Tamiya and don't even sell receivers anymore.  Use a mount in the top of your tank and buy a Tamiya.  It will end all discussion.  They are expensive for what they are, but you get a good quality consistent functioning IR receiver. The latest thing to do is take of the top off and rotate the prism 45 degrees.  No special skill or tool is required.   This gets rid of the tactic of running around the battle field with your turret at 45 degrees.  As you can move this around between tanks you are only talking about buying one or two.



How are those SLUs hanging in there.
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Glen B
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Glen B

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 23, 2014 11:53 am

BattleArmor wrote:
Use a mount in the top of your tank and buy a Tamiya. 

As you can move this around between tanks you are only talking about buying one or two.


This is what I have chosen to do with any new builds and the goal is to covert the rest of the "fleet" over in this mode, eventually.  See below;



BattleArmor wrote:


How are those SLUs hanging in there.

When they run, they work quite well. I have little electronics aptitude and I have no problems installing them.

I have had 6 of them and this is my experience.

Three have developed a condition where they can be trimmed to either run straight at low speed and pull to one side at high speed, or run straight at high speed but not at low speed; but not at all speeds.

This can be repaired (two of mine have), however, I understand that there are no more replacement components available in the country at this time. The difficulty is that one might assume that the condition will re-occur and if components are still not available, it will be "game over".

To my knowledge, you might be able to special order them but no one is actively stocking them in North America (please feel free to correct me if this is not true).

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
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knispel
Lieutenant Colonel
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knispel

Posts : 1200
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Age : 67
Location : North of Kitchener

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PostSubject: Re: Clark Discussion for Club Settings   Clark Discussion for Club Settings - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 26, 2014 11:08 pm

I agree with you Glen after experience with a number of systems I am leaning to Clark with a Tamiya receiverfor a few reasons; Good value,compact design,and wide programing so once the club settles on the numbers we can set up tanks to be pretty fair on the battle field.
The Tamiya sytems are robust and perform great but at a price.
The SLU's have given me problems ,big space hogs,2 failed units and one burned .

So far I have 2 Clarks with Tamiya receiver , 5 SLU units and 2 Tamiya systems .



KT / Clark cw Amp / Tamyia Receiver
Stug / Clark / Tamiya Receiver
Pz IV / SLU
Tiger I / SLU
KV1 / SLU
Bulldog / SLU
Pan tiger / SLU
Sherman / Tamiya
Panther G / Tamiya
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