The CAN-AM RC Tank Club is a group of remote control tank enthusiasts that meet together to run our tanks on a miniature battlefield and conduct simulated battles using Infrared combat systems.
 
CalendarLog inHomeRegisterGalleryFAQ
Log in
Username:
Password:
Log in automatically: 
:: I forgot my password
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Latest topics
» Tanks For Sale...
by Airbrushler Today at 1:41 am

» Oct. 21 Battleday KW Garrison!
by Jarlath Today at 1:02 am

» Traxxas 1/10 E-Revo Brushless Edition
by Jarlath Yesterday at 10:53 pm

» Tiger Tank
by Tiger Power Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:29 am

» Can-Am 2017 Battleday Schedule
by Bud Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:17 am

» Random Postings
by knispel Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:03 pm

» Modify M35A2 6x6
by knispel Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:55 pm

» Heng Long Trucks ?
by Airbrushler Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:44 am

» Increasing the RC Car arsenal...
by Jarlath Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:53 pm

Top posting users this month
Jarlath
 
MikeC
 
Bud
 
hachleopard2
 
Airbrushler
 
knispel
 
Jughead
 
dgsselkirk
 
Shoveler74
 
Tiger Power
 

Share | .
 

 Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Glen B
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1660
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 65
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

PostSubject: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:45 am

This has been discussed in the Oct. 26th meet thread but I thought I would start something new on it.

To my knowledge, we have had three members (one of them was me) who have had fires in the power wiring between the Tamiya plug and the board connection.

My electronics knowledge is just a bit above non-existent, and I thinks some others have tant problem too, so I was hoping we could collect some info on the problem, and solutions, here.

One of the things I have seen posted is that the HL switch is possibly the problem. (Lack of knowledge showing here) When I look at the HL switch the negative, black wires are soldered to one connection but the positive, red wires have two different connections; can someone please post a diagram of how these should be hooked up to a replacement switch?

Any other ideas of the causes of the fires and fixes would be appreciated.

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
Back to top Go down
MikeC
Colonel
Colonel


Posts : 1369
Join date : 2013-08-25
Location : Toronto, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:59 am

Glen, there is actually two problems with the typical HL stock wiring and most switch wiring.

1. They use a two pole switch, which is unnecessary, but is more commonly available, and also can be use as a soldering point which leads to the second problem.

2. Both Pos(+) and Neg(-) wiring are in close proximity to each other which will short board/battery/burnt wires and cause fire, not necessary all of them and not necessary in that order.

The reason this is done is simple because both the battery and the connectors to the board all come in Pos/Neg with solder ends, so for production simplicity the train monkey can just solder them to the various point and then you are done (i.e. Pos/Neg from battery to one set of poles and Pos/Neg t the board to the other set).

Basically if you look at a typical switch wiring, if you don't put in sleeves, is about 1-2mm away from frying everything and causing a fire.

There is couple of fixes. Even with the stock wiring, if you take the time to rewire exactly the same way, but put in heat shrink tubing for sleeves, then you are somewhat covered. This does not fix the problem of the switch itself being broken and connecting the two poles as a result however, which I believe is causing some if not all of the problem.

The second fix involves rewiring/addition wiring. You basically have to rewire the stock two pole switch as if it is a single pole switch, and then solder the two black wires together so basically you by pass the Neg on the switch so there is no chance of the switch failing and frying everything. In this case if the switch fails and connects the Pos, all you get is a faulty switch that is on all the time. No damages done.

The third fix involves more re-wiring and creating new JST plug ends and is actually the recommended way of wiring from Clark if you plan on using high draw motors as described on their website. Basically you wired a straight thru battery plug with a JST 2 pin and a Tamiya power on each end and this goes into the Clark Power in directly. You then wire up another straight thru, one 2 pin JST and one to a single pole (or 2 pole doesn't really matter) switch and plug that into the "Switch plug" on the Clark board. Most of us usually would have a pass thru plug into this switch port.

The only problem I find with this last fix is that part of the Clark is now live all the time. Not the whole thing, but there is current on part of the board. So if you don't like that you probably shouldn't use this method.

MikeC.


Last edited by MikeC on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Glen B
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1660
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 65
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:49 pm

Mike

Thanks for taking the time to type up a lot of detail on this subject.


MikeC wrote:

The second fix involves rewiring/addition wiring. You basically have to rewire the stock two pole switch as if it is a single pole switch, and then solder the two red wires together so basically you by pass the Pos on the switch so there is no chance of the switch failing and frying everything. In this case if the switch fails and connects the Neg, all you get is a faulty switch that is on all the time. No damages done.

Could you use this option but replace the switch with a better quality, single pole swict, doing all the other things that you suggest, i.e. using shrink sleeves for better insulation?

Would you be able to post a simple diagram for those of us that are challenged? Embarassed Laughing

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
Back to top Go down
MikeC
Colonel
Colonel


Posts : 1369
Join date : 2013-08-25
Location : Toronto, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:08 pm

Of course you can just use any single/double pole higher quality switch, but with the correct wiring, there is nothing wrong with the cheap HL switch even if they do break. When they do it won't fry anything.

Let me see if I can whip up something simple or find something on Google.

MikeC.
Back to top Go down
Glen B
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1660
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 65
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:10 pm

MikeC wrote:

Let me see if I can whip up something simple or find something on Google.

MikeC.

Thanks Very Happy

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
Back to top Go down
Airbrushler
General
General
avatar

Posts : 2041
Join date : 2012-04-27
Location : Windsor, ON

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:38 pm

this will be helpful to everyone  Thanks Guys for posting this

_____________________________________________
Back to top Go down
http://mdart8.wix.com/a-custom-rc-tanks
MikeC
Colonel
Colonel


Posts : 1369
Join date : 2013-08-25
Location : Toronto, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:15 pm

Okay pretty ugly drawings but will do the job. First up is the stock HL wiring:

" />

As you can see, both Pos and Neg fron the battery is on the switch, so if somehow the switch breaks and the contact is gone, you basically just jump the Pos and Neg of the power source together. there is no reason why they should be on the same switch, regardless of whether the switch is of good quality or not.

The correct wiring using existing HL parts should be like this:

" />

Pos and Neg do not both go thru the switch. Neg should be wired directed and the switch is only connecting the Pos(+). In this case, if the switch breaks, then it just becomes a passthru and not a fire starter.
The Clark recommended wiring is even simpler as you just wired the battery direct to the clark board, and put a switch on the SW plug. I dont recommend it as it keeps part of the board live all the time.


MikeC.
Back to top Go down
Glen B
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1660
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 65
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:18 pm

MikeC wrote:
Okay pretty ugly drawings but will do the job.

The drawings are great Very Happy

Now I understand the hook up!

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
Back to top Go down
MikeC
Colonel
Colonel


Posts : 1369
Join date : 2013-08-25
Location : Toronto, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:37 pm

Sorry just realized that my diagram is opposite to what I have written down earlier. It doesn't really matter whether it is black or red, as long as your are one going straight thru and one is thru the switch you are okay. I think the custom is to break the red on the switch and keep the black straight thru.


*** Corrected my original post ***


Last edited by MikeC on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Glen B
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1660
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 65
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:20 pm

Mike

Is the switch in your drawing in the "On" position?

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
Back to top Go down
MikeC
Colonel
Colonel


Posts : 1369
Join date : 2013-08-25
Location : Toronto, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:31 am

Glen B wrote:
Mike

Is the switch in your drawing in the "On" position?


Yes. It connects the left and the middle pole together to complete the circuit. The off position would connects the right and the middle pole together which would cut the red connection in both diagram.
Back to top Go down
Glen B
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1660
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 65
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:33 am

Thanks, again, Mike.

I think I will use that configuration.

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
Back to top Go down
dgsselkirk
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1741
Join date : 2013-02-12
Age : 58
Location : Kitchener ON

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:16 am

Good job Mike! Yes, learned to break just one line at the switch the hard way... That's my winter project re-do all my tank switches and yes, just for you no more opening the tank! LOL!

_____________________________________________
"There are things in Russia which are not as they seem..."
Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov

Too many tanks, not enough time....
Back to top Go down
Freakydude
Sgt-Major
Sgt-Major
avatar

Posts : 449
Join date : 2012-11-25
Location : Barrie

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:41 pm

Its the soldered joints causing the issues. Not the switches themselves. As poor as they are.
The standard Heng Long 3 pole switch ( Positive on, Positive off and negative ) is actually a good design but the solder gobs themselves are the issue. I would bet for every short circuit there was had an inspection been done at the solder joint itself it was either a cold solder or the gob was so thick that when the wires got wiggled they short circuited.
Inspect your soldered joints and if they are even close to another joint then de-solder and replace. If the solder joint moves when wiggled then replace it. If the wire moves more than 1/64" away from the solder joint then de-solder. If there is any wires near your solder joint then insulate them.
Back to top Go down
dgsselkirk
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1741
Join date : 2013-02-12
Age : 58
Location : Kitchener ON

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:01 am

Well now I can attest to the fact that I do some pretty fine solder and the on one of my switches I felt it kindsa crack and break internally as I was switching it and 1/2 a second later smoke. So I'm not going to screw around with them anymore. big bad butt single pole toggles for me!

_____________________________________________
"There are things in Russia which are not as they seem..."
Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov

Too many tanks, not enough time....
Back to top Go down
MikeC
Colonel
Colonel


Posts : 1369
Join date : 2013-08-25
Location : Toronto, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:13 am

I had a broken switch as well that caused shorting and that's when I start looking at re-wiring. The switch basically was live on all three pole. I never like the fact that the soldering is pretty cheesy and Pos/Neg being so close to each other exposed is never a good thing anyway.

Like I said before, if you wired properly even if the switch breaks you still won't get burnt board/battery/wires. As long as you use them as single pole with the proper wiring you are fine. Parts break all the time, you just don't want them to kill other things when they do.
Back to top Go down
Glen B
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1660
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 65
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:02 pm

Mike

I just got the replacement Clark into my latest Panther and I did you suggested switch modification.

It works just fine, thanks again for posting it.




I put a bit of heat shrink material over the unused negative connection, for added insurance.

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
Back to top Go down
MikeC
Colonel
Colonel


Posts : 1369
Join date : 2013-08-25
Location : Toronto, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:37 pm

Looks good Glen !
Back to top Go down
Glen B
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1660
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 65
Location : Fort Erie, Ontario

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:37 pm

I just did the same modification on my 2nd SS Panzer Taigen Tiger I.

I would have been very sad to have it do some real life smoke and flame effects on the field  affraid

_____________________________________________
"Luck favours the prepared!."
Back to top Go down
dgsselkirk
Major General
Major General
avatar

Posts : 1741
Join date : 2013-02-12
Age : 58
Location : Kitchener ON

PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:31 pm

Here are my new switches for the Panther build...

_____________________________________________
"There are things in Russia which are not as they seem..."
Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov

Too many tanks, not enough time....
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?   

Back to top Go down
 

Wiring Fires & Switches etc.?

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Can-Am RC Tank Club :: Assembly Area :: Tips & Technical Support-