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Top German WWII Tank Destoyer
Stug III / IV
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_lcap46%Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_rcap
 46% [ 6 ]
Jagdpanther
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_lcap0%Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Elefant
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_lcap0%Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Jagdtiger
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_lcap23%Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_rcap
 23% [ 3 ]
Marder III
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_lcap0%Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Nashorn
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_lcap0%Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Hetzer
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_lcap15%Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_rcap
 15% [ 2 ]
Jagdpanzer IV
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_lcap15%Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_rcap
 15% [ 2 ]
Dicker Max
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_lcap0%Top German WWII Tank Destoyer I_vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Sturer Emil
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 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 13
 

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Stince
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PostSubject: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 1:25 pm


Doug made a comment on another post that got me thinking, what was the the best German tank destroyer in WWII?

After doing a quick search on the internet, I came to the conclusion that there is straight up answer.  Many sites had different and conflicting results.

So I thought it be fun to see what you guys think.

The Jagdpanther?
It had good armour, speed and great gun, but had a low production and came late in the war. Plus it had mechanical problems.

The Stug?
Most produced of the tank destroyers and had a decent gun.

The Elefant?
It had great armour and gun. It was recorded taking out a T-34's three miles away. It supports a kill ratio of 10:1, the highest of the tank destroyers. But was to heavy and slow and mechanical problems. Plus it could easily be taken out by infantry.

So what to you think:?: 


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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 4:38 pm

I'm going with the jagdpanther ...but .... This could turn into a very heated debate due to the fact that all sides weather axis or allide had pros and cons in the equipment used during the period ..
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dgsselkirk
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 5:07 pm

Actually Panzerfaust hands down but you had to have balls to use it.

I vote Mk. IV L/70. Guderian's duck. When used in ambush deadly, when used as regular tank like most tank destroyers, dead....
Issues with cross country performance but the sloped armour and low sillouette, reliabilty, and the Panther gun I might add, I think make it a better choice than Jagdpanther.
War museum has one....

_____________________________________________
"There are things in Russia which are not as they seem..."
Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov

Too many tanks, not enough time....


Last edited by dgsselkirk on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Strato50
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 5:48 pm

Tough call.. I'll put my vote towards qualities I think make a good AFV.. crew comfort, reliability, mobility... Wink

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doug818tiger
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 9:15 pm

Ye the truth hurts if a jadgpanther broke down it was a major ordeal most of the time ending in destruction of the tank and the sheer over engineering of the tank ultimatly was its demise along with some poor traits like the gear boxes and road wheels
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doug818tiger
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 9:17 pm

But its deadly accurate
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Stince
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 9:30 pm

Strato50 wrote:
Tough call.. I'll put my vote towards qualities I think make a good AFV.. crew comfort, reliability, mobility... Wink
Soooo, which one do you choose? Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 9:33 pm

It's a no brainer I have to stick to my heritage the jagdpanther
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dgsselkirk
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 9:52 pm

I just edited my previous. I forgot to mention the  Mk. IV L/70 had the Panther's gun!

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Stince
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 9:58 pm

dgsselkirk wrote:
I vote Mk. IV L/70. Guderian's duck. When used in ambush deadly, when used as regular tank like most tank destroyers, dead....
Issues with cross country performance but the sloped armour and low sillouette, reliabilty,and the Panther gun I might add and I think make it a better choice than Jagdpanther.
War museum has one....
Here is the Jagdpanzer at the War Museum, I saw lat year.
Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Img_0410

The jagdpanzer does have a nice low profile and makes a great ambusher, but it did have faults too.

The long barrel on the L/70 made it front heavy and was prone to tip forward when going down hill, and could get jammed when crossing ditches.  There was so much weight on the front that the front road wheel had to be replaced with an all steel wheel, because it keep wearing out the rubber.

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Stince
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2013 10:08 pm


I would pick the Stugs.  

Crazy I know, but they were reliable, easier to upgrade, built on the chassis from dependable tanks, crew comfort and the most widely used, because of their affordability.  Plus, they were used by countries other than Germany during the war.

The Stugs were also the only true tank destroyers that were built for an offensive purpose, the others were meant for defense.

_____________________________________________
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Strato50
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 12:08 am

Stince wrote:
Strato50 wrote:
Tough call.. I'll put my vote towards qualities I think make a good AFV.. crew comfort, reliability, mobility... Wink
Soooo, which one do you choose? Shocked
Hehe, I was going to keep you all in suspense but I went with the Hetzer!

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Airbrushler
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 12:10 am

Strato50 wrote:
Stince wrote:
Strato50 wrote:
Tough call.. I'll put my vote towards qualities I think make a good AFV.. crew comfort, reliability, mobility... Wink
Soooo, which one do you choose? Shocked
Hehe, I was going to keep you all in suspense but I went with the Hetzer!
thats what i went with

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doug818tiger
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 11:59 am

So far there is no significant leader on the voteing for the tank of choice .....all had advantages all had disadvantages when it come down to it
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Freakydude
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 2:03 pm

Stug based on cost & production/armor/firepower/mobility. At any time during the war the Germans needed volume of tanks

Jagdpanther based on  Firepower/Armor/Mobility/Cost & production.  Entered too late and as always the effort was too little

Special Note: On the Steppes of Russia there is but one tank I would want
JagTiger - Park it and kill things miles away, regardless of what things are. 100% invunerable to anything beyond 1800 meters, my kind of power.
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doug818tiger
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 7:34 pm

But Curtis you forgots one thing .....can't cross a beige without falling in the river or through the bridge imobilzing it
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Freakydude
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 9:02 pm

doug818tiger wrote:
But Curtis you forgots one thing .....can't cross a beige without falling in the river or through the bridge imobilzing it
 Doug Bridge? what Bridge? we don't need no stinkin bridge lol The Jagtiger could snorkel and then we had the Kriegsmarine to help us out lol

Ok enough foolin around. The Jagtiger rarely drove much more than 15 or 20 miles to Combat as the Germans were smart enough to move everything by train. I have heard several times about the bridges and to be frank I even saw a photo where a King Tiger crashed through a Subway because of the weight but I assure you this was not the norm. Yes I will readily admit the size of the tank is a problem but everyone has to admit that a Jagdtiger anywhere in battle was a formidable foe.

The Stugs on the other hand well they just rocked.
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 10:22 pm

is this a question of historical accuracy or ones favorite German TD ?

Stinger

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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2013 11:14 pm

ones favorite TD well what a person thinks would be the best german TD. I think that was the question
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeSat Sep 07, 2013 12:30 am

Stinger wrote:
is this a question of historical accuracy or ones favorite German TD ?

Stinger
It's an "in my opinion, based on historical facts" question. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeSat Sep 07, 2013 1:00 am


I admit the Jagdtiger is one scarey bad @$$.  But it only served one purpose, that's defense.

It could never be used for attacks. If it went more than 20 kms down the road it most likely break down.  In fact any time it moved by track or train the massive gun always needed to be re-calibrated from the jarring. The transmissions and differentials broke down easily because the whole 72 tonne tank needed to rotate to traverse the gun.

The gun itself was a problem as it used two-part ammunition, which meant that two loaders were used to insert the projectile and the cased propelling charge separately. This would resulted in a slow rate of fire. The tremendous amount of smoke from firing it would often give away the position of the vehicle, in addition to momentarily blinding the crew.

Besides, a Jagdtiger is easy to beat. It's called flanking!!!  It could never turn its big butt around fast enough without busting something.

That's why I thing the Stugs where better.  They more reliable, more mobile, and versatile on offensive or defensive roles.

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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeSat Sep 07, 2013 9:01 am

Stince wrote:

I admit the Jagdtiger is one scarey bad @$$.  But it only served one purpose, that's defense.

It could never be used for attacks. If it went more than 20 kms down the road it most likely break down.  In fact any time it moved by track or train the massive gun always needed to be re-calibrated from the jarring. The transmissions and differentials broke down easily because the whole 72 tonne tank needed to rotate to traverse the gun.

The gun itself was a problem as it used two-part ammunition, which meant that two loaders were used to insert the projectile and the cased propelling charge separately. This would resulted in a slow rate of fire. The tremendous amount of smoke from firing it would often give away the position of the vehicle, in addition to momentarily blinding the crew.

Besides, a Jagdtiger is easy to beat. It's called flanking!!!  It could never turn its big butt around fast enough without busting something.

That's why I thing the Stugs where better.  They more reliable, more mobile, and versatile on offensive or defensive roles.
you can't flank something when your dead. It only takes that 1 shot to anything on the battlefield which is why I like the Jagtiger but really the Jagpanther should be the winner
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeSat Sep 07, 2013 3:58 pm

All tank destroyers have the same weakness even today in some cases they are not front line machines they are desighned for in today's world indirect fire but back then direct fire the main problem as always is the lack of mobility and clumsyness
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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeSat Sep 07, 2013 6:42 pm

Stince wrote:

I would pick the Stugs.  

Crazy I know, but they were reliable, easier to upgrade, built on the chassis from dependable tanks, crew comfort and the most widely used, because of their affordability.  Plus, they were used by countries other than Germany during the war.

The Stugs were also the only true tank destroyers that were built for an offensive purpose, the others were meant for defense.
I picked the Stug III for similar reasons.

They were available with the long 75mm from 1942 - on, in sufficient numbers to make a significant impact.

From what I have read, they were a moral boost for infantry units they provided support for and racked up an approximate claim of 20,000 tanks knocked out.


I would like to have voted for the Jagdpanther, with its 88mm, heavy, sloped frontal armor and Panther "running gear" but it was too little, too late.  Late war circumstances prevented it from being used as it was intended, in sufficient numbers, with good logistical support.

Stince
The Jagdpanther? 
It had good armour, speed and great gun, but had a low production and came late in the war. Plus it had mechanical problems.

Yes, it did have mechanical problems.  Partly due to not having the preferred alloying elements available under late war conditions, to make the optimum steel alloys for the drive train.  Also the manufacturers were severely hampered by bombing.

It was not the only AFV with reliability issues, the M26 Pershing also had problems which were still present when it was used in Korea.  Had the Pershing been produced with a lack of proper materials and under constant strategic bombing, IMHO, its reliability would have been lower than what it was. 


It did take guts to use a Panzerfaust, but the Japanese option really "separated the men from the boys"  Shocked 

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PostSubject: Re: Top German WWII Tank Destoyer   Top German WWII Tank Destoyer Icon_minitimeMon Sep 16, 2013 9:48 pm

" The Stugs were also the only true tank destroyers that were built for an offensive purpose, the others were meant for defense" - Stince

For this reason alone I favour the Stug as well:thumbsup:
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