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Stince
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Stince

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PostSubject: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeThu Oct 24, 2013 2:30 pm


I was wondering if you guys notice a difference in how a tank drives with the drive sprocket in the front or the back.

I have tanks that have them in both positions, and find that the ones with the drive sprocket in the front steer and climb better.

What do you guys think? Do you have a preference?

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HL Panzer III   |   HL Tiger   |   HL Jagdpanther   |   HL Panther   |   Mato Sherman
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MikeC
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeThu Oct 24, 2013 2:38 pm

I think it is almost the same as front wheel drive car vs rear wheel drive. You will get over steer on rear wheel drive car because it is a pushing motion, so if you don't have grip the steering will not be sharp as the front drive/sprocket ones.

Front sprocket is a pulling motion and rear sprocket is pushing so again in general pulling would be more efficient I believe.
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Stince
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeThu Oct 24, 2013 2:48 pm


True, I just didn't think these tanks would have enough weight to behave the same as something heavy like a car. scratch

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doug818tiger
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeThu Oct 24, 2013 3:30 pm

Hard to say... I guess like you said it would be a matter of were the center of gravity is and how heavey ...my Sherman sucks on turning sharp but will climb almost anything were as the tiger turns real nice but can't do steep inclines
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Strato50
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeThu Oct 24, 2013 6:57 pm

Theoretically it really shouldn't matter as far as steering and drive quality, since the tracks are just spinning in one plane of motion.

What MIGHT make a difference is whether your tank likes to skip sprocket teeth and the importance of track tension. Driving forward my KV-2 is happy with nice loose tracks but it skips and chatters in reverse.

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doug818tiger
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeThu Oct 24, 2013 9:31 pm

The Sherman has loose tracks but it don't chatter or skip ....personally I think its just under powered a bit even with the waltersons boxs ....its just lazy turning
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Freakydude
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeFri Nov 01, 2013 6:29 pm

This is simple physics. The Front sprocket drive wheel will always perform better than a rear wheel drive sprocket regardless of vehicle size. Easier to pull than push kind of theory even though a tank track is always pull.

  For those that say -well all modern tanks are rear engined and tranny's are in the back with the drive sprocket, why are they like that. Well yes they are except for a few tanks like the Merkava but this is done as a need for area/space to put a large diesel or turbine. 
  The Merkava is front engined to provide better protection to the crew as Isreal is one of the few countries that can't afford to loose troops.
Every other Country accepts that people will die in a tank battle.
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Strato50
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeFri Nov 01, 2013 9:03 pm

Curtis, allow me to dabble into the realm of the silly here... it's a good thing we haven't lost a single man in 3 years of tank combat! Wink

I still think the front vs rear argument is more about where the slack and tension is over the length of the track itself. Front drive sprockets have the slack concentrated right INFRONT of the first road wheel. Rear drives have all the slack on top, over the return rollers or just hanging there in tanks like the Tigers or Panther. 

The ground doesn't care where that slack is. The wheels will be putting the same amount of ground pressure along the track length and pull the tank along no matter where the drive sprocket is. 

Now what makes a big difference between front and rear drives is the amount of 'tension play' variation you can get away with. All us Tiger(s) and Panther, and even Sherman drivers know how important that is... too slack, OR too tight, you'll have issues! The Russian tanks can run super loose, as long as they keep driving forward... (no retreat!!!)

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Freakydude
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeFri Nov 01, 2013 9:28 pm

Jordan,
Let me put this in tune with where your track slack is as slack really doesn't have much to do with this..
On the front drive sprocket -moving forward, the track is pulled along the top of the road wheels and there is only the tension of the track, there is a distance of aprox 15 feet more or less of loose track being pulled against an ilder wheel. Remember the fulcrum and pivot point?
Rear drive sprockets pull the track under the road wheels and have the weight of the tank on top of the track, The last road wheel being some 2 to 3 feet from the rear idler. The last roadwheel is the pivot point. 
This is basic physics that the farther away the pivot point the easier it is to move the load. In the case of a tank the weight of the tank itself shortens the pivot point and increases the force required to move the load.
That is why front drive is better than rear drive, think of a block and chain, see-saw, engine hoist etc.
The drive sprocket is the pull point the Idler wheel or last road wheel is the pivot. Only thing that matters is distance from the pivot assuming the weight and all other variables are the exact same.
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doug818tiger
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Spocket Postion   Drive Spocket Postion Icon_minitimeSat Nov 02, 2013 6:38 pm

That is most confusing ....might be the crown royal ?
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